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Post by Michael West on Jul 12, 2005 23:47:20 GMT -5
Directed by: Christopher Nolan Written by: Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer Producers: Bob and Harvey Weinstein Starring: Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Katie Holmes, Gary Oldman, and Cillian Murphy Everyone always wants to do the origin story for a comic book character. How did Superman come to Earth and find out he could fly? How did David Banner (TV Show) find out his insurance premiums would go up every time he got angry? The problem with this is that, by and large, we know all this stuff. We know Superman's planet blew up and his father sent him to live with us puny humans. We know that the Web Head was bitten by a radioactive spider, and we know Banner got more than a sun tan from gamma rays. To show it all step-by-step is just going over old territory. And so I applauded Tim Burton when his 1987 Batman started with Bruce Wayne already in full costume as the Caped Crusader. We still got the little flashback info that his parents were killed in a robbery, that this event scarred poor Bruce into wanting to rid Gotham City of crime, but we also got right into the action. So when I first heard Warner Brothers, after the disaster that was Batman and Robin, was planning to do Batman Begins--the story of how millionaire (now upgraded to billionaire in this movie) Bruce Wayne first donned mask and cowl to fight evil by night, I said, "Why?" Then I heard they had chosen Chris Nolan ( Memento, Insomnia) as director and Christian Bale ( American Psycho, The Machinist) as Bruce/Batman. To say my jaw dropped would be an understatement. Add in Michael Caine ( The Hand) as Alfred the butler, Gary Oldman ( Bram Stoker's Dracula) as Detective Gordon (this is, after all, the beginning), and Morgan Freeman ( Seven) as a gadget guru at Wayne industries, and this is the best cast ever in a Batman movie. Together, this dream team works to return the Dark Knight to his former glory. The story involves Bruce Wayne coming to grips with the death of his parents. Afraid and wrestling with guilt over their murders, he flees Gotham for some nameless far east country. There he finds a tutor in the ways of the Ninja, Henri Ducard ( Darkman Liam Neeson), and learns how to come to grips with his own fear and turn it around to strike fear info the hearts of evil doers. When he returns to the big city, Wayne goes about putting together the perfect costume, building a Batcave, collecting all kinds of helpful gadgets--including the way cool new Batmobile, and trying to court the future Mrs. Tom Cruise. The foe this time out is the Scarecrow--who wants to put a drug into the cities water supply, then vaporize it so that everyone inhales and starts killing each other--but for the first time, the movie is not about the "villain of the week." This is dark, dark stuff. Bale is wonderfully brooding, and Nolan treats the material seriously. There are no bad puns here, no tilted fun house camera angles, and (thank you!) no nipples on the Batsuit. As good as it is, however, there is one flaw. The fight scenes, and there are several, are filmed in extreme close-up with hand held cameras. To compound the problem, the editing is so fast that it is hard to tell who is fighting who and who is winning until the scenes are over. I mention this only because it is noticeable and because I want anyone going to see this film to be aware that, other than this problem, this is a truly great work. Not only is it one of the best comic book films ever made, it is hands down the best movie so far this year. 4.5 out of 5 stars
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Post by Timid Wily Lava Child on Jul 15, 2005 2:02:52 GMT -5
I would say that it's still not the best Batman movie though. MASK OF THE PHANTASM still holds that spot, and BATMAN RETURNS may also be above this one. You're right about the fight scenes. Thay're not fatal, but they do cripple the film a bit.
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Post by Michael West on Jul 15, 2005 8:14:46 GMT -5
I would say that it's still not the best Batman movie though. MASK OF THE PHANTASM still holds that spot, and BATMAN RETURNS may also be above this one. You're right about the fight scenes. Thay're not fatal, but they do cripple the film a bit. Yes, Mask was excellent. Then entire animated series was well written and executed. I also greatly enjoyed the Sub Zero cartoon movie that came out around the time as the dreadful Batman and Robin. I saw it and said, "Why couldn't Warner Brothers have filmed THAT story for B&R!" Batman Returns is my favorite film from the previous quartet. It was dark. I like dark. Love the re-imagination of the Penguin and the homage to German expressionism.
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Post by obliv326 on Jul 22, 2005 2:21:44 GMT -5
i liked batman begins quite a bit...i think it probably revived the character enough that they can almost forget the damage joel schumacher did to it...
but not completely forget. we must keep this tragedy in our minds, always, lest someone later on down the line thinks something like "i think we should make a batman film that takes the worst ideas we have ever had for superhero movies and crams them all in one horrific film...for example, lets change charaters origins and personalities, not to mention powers...and lets put nipples on batmans costume...and while we're at it, lets throw in some of the worst performances ever by uma thurman and arnold schwarzenegger...yes, even worse than red heat and commando...and to top it all off, lets cram alicia silverston into it too, getting some of that silverstone magic. i mean, her career is always going to be white hot, so her presence will keep the film flying off of videostore shelves for decades to come..."who's batman?" they'll say....'i dont know" will reply their friend, scratching his space helmet (they live on mars in the future) and rubbing the arm of his one piece silver suit that everyone wears (its the future...). but it's got president silverstone in it. it HAS to be great! yes...i'm a genius...
so, just in case anyone ever has that very thought, we can point them in the direction of batman and robin and say, no. your idea would never work, and here is a chilling example of the proof.
of course, being hollywood, theyll probably think "yeah, but I can make it work! they dont call me brett ratner for nothing..."
btw, i and a few mike associates went to see batman and robin when it came out w/mike and his young son, who was , what 2? 3? anyway, he showed his wisdom to be greater than the combined wealth of experience of all of us there. as we sat, dredging through that horrible piece of crap, we were all willing to sit there through to what promised to be an embarrassing and boring end. mikes son, as if to say ENOUGH! showed his alarming good taste by projectile vomitting all over the floor and the people in front of us...to this day, i can think of no more appropriate reaction to batman and robin than his...so, hats off to you, young kyle!
anyway, i liked batman and robin...
and one other thing, if they ever make a penguin movie, my nominee to play him is paul giamatti.
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Post by Michael West on Jul 22, 2005 6:49:45 GMT -5
i liked batman begins quite a bit...i think it probably revived the character enough that they can almost forget the damage joel schumacher did to it... Agreed. ;D but not completely forget. we must keep this tragedy in our minds, always, lest someone later on down the line thinks something like "i think we should make a batman film that takes the worst ideas we have ever had for superhero movies and crams them all in one horrific film...for example, lets change charaters origins and personalities, not to mention powers...and lets put nipples on batmans costume...and while we're at it, lets throw in some of the worst performances ever by uma thurman and arnold schwarzenegger...yes, even worse than red heat and commando...and to top it all off, lets cram alicia silverston into it too, getting some of that silverstone magic. i mean, her career is always going to be white hot, so her presence will keep the film flying off of videostore shelves for decades to come..."who's batman?" they'll say....'i dont know" will reply their friend, scratching his space helmet (they live on mars in the future) and rubbing the arm of his one piece silver suit that everyone wears (its the future...). but it's got president silverstone in it. it HAS to be great! yes...i'm a genius... Why DOES everyone in the future where those silver jumpsuits? of course, being hollywood, theyll probably think "yeah, but I can make it work! they dont call me brett ratner for nothing..." You are so right. Why else would they still let Paul W.S. Anderson get his hands on other franchises and let him wreck them? "Sure he ruined Alien Vs. Predator (or AVP as it is so affectionately known). Sure he turned the promising Resident Evil into a piece of crap. But hey...I'm sure he's the perfect person to do the remake of Halloween." ...as if to say ENOUGH! showed his alarming good taste by projectile vomitting all over the floor and the people in front of us...to this day, i can think of no more appropriate reaction to batman and robin than his...so, hats off to you, young kyle! Yes. Kyle has a bright future as a film critic. ;D ...and one other thing, if they ever make a penguin movie, my nominee to play him is paul giamatti. Oooooh, nice choice! ;D
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Post by Timid Wily Lava Child on Jul 26, 2005 3:43:55 GMT -5
... mikes son, as if to say ENOUGH! showed his alarming good taste by projectile vomitting all over the floor and the people in front of us... Yes, he did provide us a tidy liberation. Note also - he was sound asleep right up until the goo started. He sensed - *asleep* - just how bad Uma could get. Yuck. Here are my rankings then: 1 - Mask of the Phantasm 2 - Batman Returns 3 - This new one 4 - The 60's movie 5 - Burton's first one 6 - Forever 7 - Vomit So, yeah. The top 3 are the good ones.
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Post by Michael West on Jul 26, 2005 7:05:05 GMT -5
Here are my rankings then: 1 - Mask of the Phantasm 2 - Batman Returns 3 - This new one 4 - The 60's movie 5 - Burton's first one 6 - Forever 7 - Vomit So, yeah. The top 3 are the good ones. The 60's Movie above Burton's Batman (1989)?
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Post by obliv326 on Jul 28, 2005 5:58:13 GMT -5
i think i have a better opinion of the new one than you guys seem to. i would put it above batman returns, just b/c something about returns fell apart for me near the end...esp the badly animated army of penguins.
i think it is very clear that everyone involved in this one was not only very carefulw/the origins and the character, but was very aware of the franchise and what had happened.
about the best thing i can say for a summer movie is that i was never bored, and i can say that bout this one. i was impressed w/the pacing, the detail of the characers in the story, very impressed w/cillian murphy, really liked bale. it looked great.
that just leaves katie holmes, who is quicjkly supplanting natalie portman(and a few others) in the "winona ryder award for undeserved reputation for beauty".
thats the key, though, you know...get a good director, and let him take a strong swing at it...
its really sad how many properties get slipped alonguntil they have some hack yes man in the chair and, surprise, they make a half assed film (daredevil, league of extraordinary gents, which is a DAMN shame, soon, the superman movie)...
i think i can justify seeing pretty much anything chris nolan does...
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Post by Michael West on Jul 28, 2005 6:03:20 GMT -5
i think i have a better opinion of the new one than you guys seem to. i would put it above batman returns... As would I. I think it's the best Batman ever.
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Post by obliv326 on Jul 30, 2005 1:57:13 GMT -5
ah yes...you did.
i think i was assuming you and dave were on the same wavelength w/tis one.
i cant remember much of mask of the phantasm, but i remember liking it. i would certainly rank it high in batman lore.
i daresay the animtaed series, as a whole, is probably the best overall depiction of the character outside the comic books, and it may even be better than those, taken as a whole, what with all the dorking around dc did w/the stories for so long.
but we do all agree that mask is a fine film, somewhat underrated, i believe.
mike and i love begins. dave maybe a little more reserved.
and we all hate batman and robin, and agree w/kyle's assessment.
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Post by Michael West on Jul 30, 2005 6:52:27 GMT -5
mike and i love begins. dave maybe a little more reserved. and we all hate batman and robin, and agree w/kyle's assessment. I think that sums it up nicely. ;D
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Post by Timid Wily Lava Child on Jul 30, 2005 14:33:15 GMT -5
The 60's Movie above Burton's Batman (1989)? Yup. Burton's just bores me. It was fun once, but there were two factors to that - I *wanted* to like it, so I kind of psyched myself into it, and I was excusing its failings for the smatterings of rewards - an occasional setpiece scene with Joker, a nice shot, etc. Saw it again and... what a yawner. The 60's movie is, at the very least, not dull.
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Post by Michael West on Jul 30, 2005 14:51:26 GMT -5
The 60's movie is, at the very least, not dull. That's for sure. The only thing that bugs me about the Burton one when I watch it now are the Prince songs. Don't get me wrong, I like the Purple one normally, but it seemed that they just halted all action on that movie and became their own little music videos. Very out of place. From interviews I read with Burton when he was doing Batman Returns, he felt the same way.
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Post by Timid Wily Lava Child on Jul 30, 2005 17:26:26 GMT -5
The only thing that bugs me about the Burton one when I watch it now are the Prince songs. Don't get me wrong, I like the Purple one normally, but it seemed that they just halted all action on that movie and became their own little music videos. Very out of place. From interviews I read with Burton when he was doing Batman Returns, he felt the same way. Either more, or none, that's my perspective on his music for that film. I liked his soundtrack, and thought that the movie made with that music in mind could have been a good one. Just popping a few tunes in here and there though really jarred with the mood. Elfman, or Prince, whole hog either way, but not both.
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Post by Michael West on Jul 30, 2005 23:10:32 GMT -5
Either more, or none, that's my perspective on his music for that film. I liked his soundtrack, and thought that the movie made with that music in mind could have been a good one. Just popping a few tunes in here and there though really jarred with the mood. Elfman, or Prince, whole hog either way, but not both. I think you're right, Elfman and Prince clash too badly. I think the Siouxsie And The Banshees song from Batman Returns was a much better fit.
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